ACLU accuses LA County Sheriff's Department of harassing photographers

[ikanplay]

Interesting topic as I have been stopped & questioned before on two different occasions while taking photographs. The first time the officers were very polite. This was by the Long Beach/Wilmington area but the second time at one of the L.A. river bridges this officer was a total "Sheriff Roscoe" so to speak.

Thanks for the advise N Paul. Not to say I wasn't cooperative on both occasions but I will keep this in mind for the next time for which I hope there won't be one.

J. Reyes

[SLOCONDR]

Mr. Paul, I thought you might pipe in on this one. Nice to see you came back to WCRF as I miss some of your posts. We all need to see the updates on the SP 1353 please!!!!

Virlon

[orange choo choo]

You always have to be respectful to the authorities. Once they know what you're doing they let you resume your activities or at worst politely tell you to leave. When you become confrontational a whole new door opens even if you're in the right. When I was told that I was not supposed to be parked on a street by the port I informed the officer that it was legal, but he said he prefers I not be there so I obliged. I know it's wrong for them to do that but I don't want the hassle of being handcuffed, placed in the back of a patrol car and later released and file a complaint. I know it stinks (constitutionally and morally) to lay down your rights but I'm not in the mood to go through the motions to be vindicated.

[SP4449]

I also think a good approach to say to an officer that approaches you is this "Officer if you don't want me here I will leave" right away to let them know your going to not be a problem for them.

[ikanplay]

(10-31-2011 07:53 PM)SP4449 Wrote:  I also think a good approach to say to an officer that approaches you is this "Officer if you don't want me here I will leave" right away to let them know your going to not be a problem for them.

I may find it a little difficult to tell that to an officer if the train I'm waiting for should happen to be UP-844 but I also think the chances are very low for that to happen unless you're illegally parked or something else.

[Holloran Grade]

I don't have a problem with an officer approaching me in response to a call and doing do diligence.

What does get me going is when they approach you in a menacing manner and tell you that you cannot take pictures here.

And if they state it is because of 9/11, well then you know they are full it.

What you do in response is up to you, however I rarely choose to walk away because being a pain in the posterior to the government is what I do for a living, and I know just how far I can push the issue.

I would say don't try this at home unless you really know what you are doing.

[chris_wlkr]

(10-31-2011 07:53 PM)SP4449 Wrote:  I also think a good approach to say to an officer that approaches you is this "Officer if you don't want me here I will leave" right away to let them know your going to not be a problem for them.

To me this would automatically imply that your doing something wrong.

Better to let them ask questions first and you answer questions politely with a yes Sir and Thank You. If they ask you to leave, then you can run if you want. Let them do their job instead of implying you know what they want as they are approaching you.

[Holloran Grade]

(11-01-2011 11:01 AM)chris_wlkr Wrote:  To me this would automatically imply that your doing something wrong.

I would agree and as Paul said, they are allowed to ID you so make sure you have that handy if you are going somewhere contested and as you grab for it, tell the person that is what you are doing and don't make any quick moves if it is in your bag.

Having someone draw on you can really ruin your day, and some of these people are not that well trained and could actually shoot you if they think you have a weapon.

(And I don't fault officers for being this way, since these, and traffic stops are some of the most dangerous encounters that peace officers have and they don't know you from Adam.)

Memorizing your drivers license number is a good way to identify yourself since the Supreme Court cases do not specify what type of identifying documents are required to be produced and it does not involve reaching anywhere with your hands.

On our 9/11 trip I brought my Pass Port and not my CDL.

(11-01-2011 11:01 AM)chris_wlkr Wrote:  Better to let them ask questions first and you answer questions politely with a yes Sir and Thank You.

Always a good idea and just answer the question, don't ramble on.

Many times people dig themselves in deeper by failing to answer the question and by providing a whole bunch of other unsolicited information - the police are trained to dig, so don't give them dirt.

You have the right to remain silent - use it.

Also if you feel you have done something wrong, realize that they are going to arrest you whether you cooperate or not, so better to keep your mouth shut if you think you are really in trouble.

[TC Smith]

Boy is your last (sort-of) paragraph right HG. Coming back from Nogales, MX some years back after taking pics in the yard and roundhouse my friends kept insisting we don't tell the Border Patrol we were railfans. We got searched every single time (4 day weekend, 2 trips most days). Finally the last time I told them we were taking train pictures and sailed right through.
Be respectful, be concise, be honest.


TCS - but don't be a pushover.

[Eaglefan9727]

(10-31-2011 10:42 AM)N Paul Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 08:33 AM)wCRv Wrote:  Is it legal for an officer to do all that?

Hello to the forum, as it's been a while since I posted anything. As a Deputy Sheriff, I think I can help answer that question. I'm not interested in holding court about one specific instance, but rather to answer the question in a general sense. If a reporting party calls to report a suspicious subject the cops are obligated to respond. Upon observing an individual matching the description provided by the reporting party, the officer now has reasonable suspicion to contact that individual. The purpose of that contact is to confirm or dispel that suspicion. It's that simple. Upon contacting the individual, its always nice if they are cooperative- it speeds up the process of dispelling the suspicion. Regarding being "frisked"- Case law has been upheld by the US Supreme Court that allows officers to conduct a pat down search of a person for weapons, for officer safety purposes. You'd be surprised who carries weapons these days, so don't feel singled out if you're ever patted down. Following a pat down, the officer will likely ask what you're doing. As you're answering "photographing trains" he's summing up the totality of the circumstances, and probably starting to think you're not Osama Bin Laden. He may ask to see your ID. Show him. Case law allows officers to identify those individuals they come into contact with. He may "run" you. (put your name into the computer or over the radio to check for warrants) This serves two purposes- it attaches your name to the call in the computer. That way, if the officer is wrong and you do turn out to be a bad guy, there's some record of who you are at that given place and time. Another reason for checking is to make sure your'e not a registered sex offender, parolee, or probationer with prohibitions against being in certain places. I'm sorry to say that I know of a sex offender in this county who is a major train buff. He used model trains to victimize kids. Another example would be a records check returning that you are on parole for grand theft or burglary...and let's say you're hanging around an industrial area. Perhaps the camera is just a front to case the local industies.

By being cooperative and forthcoming you dispel the reasonable suspicion quickly. Just be normal. The officer may ask to see your camera. That's your call if you want to show him the pics. Nothing says that you have to, unless you've broken some other law that gives him probable cause to search that electronic data base. I'm not going to say do it or don't. Just remain cooperative and emotionally centered. Remember, officers deal with far more serious circumstances than a railfan photographer. I doubt any of them will risk their career by purposely violating someones civil rights. As a final thought, officers deal with a large cross section of situations in a single shift. Some are literally life threatening, some are really annoying, and some are really rewarding. None of the bad situations is an excuse for any cop to mistreat the public or violate someones civil rights, period. We are however, still people. If I've said be cooperative once, I've said it a million times. It's just really nice to contact a normal, law abiding citizen, to be able to dispel that reasonable suspicion, and have a cordial exchange. ...because the next call might just be a felon trying to kill you.

Happy railfanning.

I was very cooperative with the officer. I know how to deal with law enforcement considering that I have many friends who work in that field as police officers and I have worked in that field as well for a local departmernt in Southern Cal.

This was not the incident that made me angry. The incident that made me angry took place at El Monte when they LA county sheriff just lied straight out to me about a law that I was breaking within the city limits of El Monte. The reason why I knew there was no such law on the book was, Because I went to El Monte police department and I had a discussion with one of the supervisors and he said that there was no such law on the book.