ACLU accuses LA County Sheriff's Department of harassing photographers

[SP4449]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/a...story.html

[Eaglefan9727]

In April of this year, I was stopped by a Los Angeles County Sheriff after I took some shots at the Rosemead bridge on the Alhambra sub. The sheriff caught up to me at Rosemead and Broadway (Across the street from The Hat). He told me that someone called the station about a suspicious person taking photos at the bridge. The cop frisked me, Took my camera to see the shots that I had on it, and I had to empty everything out of my pocket. I told him that I was on my yearly vacation to Los Angeles and I was staying with a friend of the family in Temple City which I always do every year I go out there. After about 15 minutes, He let me go on my way. BTW, The sheriff did give me the camera back and didnt delete any photos.

[SLOCONDR]

(10-31-2011 12:03 AM)Eaglefan9727 Wrote:  In April of this year, I was stopped by a Los Angeles County Sheriff after I took some shots at the Rosemead bridge on the Alhambra sub. The sheriff caught up to me at Rosemead and Broadway (Across the street from The Hat). He told me that someone called the station about a suspicious person taking photos at the bridge. The cop frisked me, Took my camera to see the shots that I had on it, and I had to empty everything out of my pocket. I told him that I was on my yearly vacation to Los Angeles and I was staying with a friend of the family in Temple City which I always do every year I go out there. After about 15 minutes, He let me go on my way. BTW, The sheriff did give me the camera back and didnt delete any photos.

Nosy GD'ed people.

V

SLOCONDR

[wCRv]

(10-31-2011 12:03 AM)Eaglefan9727 Wrote:  In April of this year, I was stopped by a Los Angeles County Sheriff after I took some shots at the Rosemead bridge on the Alhambra sub. The sheriff caught up to me at Rosemead and Broadway (Across the street from The Hat). He told me that someone called the station about a suspicious person taking photos at the bridge. The cop frisked me, Took my camera to see the shots that I had on it, and I had to empty everything out of my pocket. I told him that I was on my yearly vacation to Los Angeles and I was staying with a friend of the family in Temple City which I always do every year I go out there. After about 15 minutes, He let me go on my way. BTW, The sheriff did give me the camera back and didnt delete any photos.

Is it legal for an officer to do all that?

[orange choo choo]

I'm currious if airplane photographers are being similarly harassed. This is just crazy, if a terrorist causes mayhem at a beach will police start going after photographers at beaches next? Our anti-terror policies are out of whack, I'm no security expert but they are targeting the wrong people such as photographers and enthusiasts, children and the elderly at airports, and people who search key words on the internet that are flagged.

[SP4449]

You can legally take pictures or videos of officers as long as you don't get in their way of an investigation. Even if an officer says you can't do that he or she is wrong.

[N Paul]

(10-31-2011 08:33 AM)wCRv Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 12:03 AM)Eaglefan9727 Wrote:  In April of this year, I was stopped by a Los Angeles County Sheriff after I took some shots at the Rosemead bridge on the Alhambra sub. The sheriff caught up to me at Rosemead and Broadway (Across the street from The Hat). He told me that someone called the station about a suspicious person taking photos at the bridge. The cop frisked me, Took my camera to see the shots that I had on it, and I had to empty everything out of my pocket. I told him that I was on my yearly vacation to Los Angeles and I was staying with a friend of the family in Temple City which I always do every year I go out there. After about 15 minutes, He let me go on my way. BTW, The sheriff did give me the camera back and didnt delete any photos.

Is it legal for an officer to do all that?

Hello to the forum, as it's been a while since I posted anything. As a Deputy Sheriff, I think I can help answer that question. I'm not interested in holding court about one specific instance, but rather to answer the question in a general sense. If a reporting party calls to report a suspicious subject the cops are obligated to respond. Upon observing an individual matching the description provided by the reporting party, the officer now has reasonable suspicion to contact that individual. The purpose of that contact is to confirm or dispel that suspicion. It's that simple. Upon contacting the individual, its always nice if they are cooperative- it speeds up the process of dispelling the suspicion. Regarding being "frisked"- Case law has been upheld by the US Supreme Court that allows officers to conduct a pat down search of a person for weapons, for officer safety purposes. You'd be surprised who carries weapons these days, so don't feel singled out if you're ever patted down. Following a pat down, the officer will likely ask what you're doing. As you're answering "photographing trains" he's summing up the totality of the circumstances, and probably starting to think you're not Osama Bin Laden. He may ask to see your ID. Show him. Case law allows officers to identify those individuals they come into contact with. He may "run" you. (put your name into the computer or over the radio to check for warrants) This serves two purposes- it attaches your name to the call in the computer. That way, if the officer is wrong and you do turn out to be a bad guy, there's some record of who you are at that given place and time. Another reason for checking is to make sure your'e not a registered sex offender, parolee, or probationer with prohibitions against being in certain places. I'm sorry to say that I know of a sex offender in this county who is a major train buff. He used model trains to victimize kids. Another example would be a records check returning that you are on parole for grand theft or burglary...and let's say you're hanging around an industrial area. Perhaps the camera is just a front to case the local industies.

By being cooperative and forthcoming you dispel the reasonable suspicion quickly. Just be normal. The officer may ask to see your camera. That's your call if you want to show him the pics. Nothing says that you have to, unless you've broken some other law that gives him probable cause to search that electronic data base. I'm not going to say do it or don't. Just remain cooperative and emotionally centered. Remember, officers deal with far more serious circumstances than a railfan photographer. I doubt any of them will risk their career by purposely violating someones civil rights. As a final thought, officers deal with a large cross section of situations in a single shift. Some are literally life threatening, some are really annoying, and some are really rewarding. None of the bad situations is an excuse for any cop to mistreat the public or violate someones civil rights, period. We are however, still people. If I've said be cooperative once, I've said it a million times. It's just really nice to contact a normal, law abiding citizen, to be able to dispel that reasonable suspicion, and have a cordial exchange. ...because the next call might just be a felon trying to kill you.

Happy railfanning.

[USAF_Andrew]

Very well said. I am a reserve officer in my county so I wanted to piggy back on this a bit. Your attitude goes a long way. If you are argumentative etc towards the officer, its not going to help you. Have a train mag or something with you, might help explain what you are doing. Attitude is everything.

[erielackawanna]

I'm not an officer of the law, but have friends who are. I want to throw in that taking pictures for many decades now I have learned that all that is posted here is true.

Frankly, you need to be okay with being stopped and questioned. That is the officer's job.

Truth of the matter is that having been questioned dozens of times, I only had one time with an actual police officer that I felt necessary to follow up on.

I've had much bigger issues with private security making up their own rules... but I think that's an obvious situation we've all faced.

Now, that's not to say that you won't find yourself face to face with a bully with a badge one day... but even when it happens, I suggest staying calm and polite.

[Amtrak/Santa Fe Boy]

This kind of terrorist suspicion makes sense.
I've heard stories of a guy photographing the gas tanks and the underbody of a locomotive.
When the police questioned him and took his camera,they found pics of planes and their technology/engines.

Another story where a guy claimed to be part of the FRA,asking to enter a rail yard.
When the employees asked for I.D. acknowledging he was an FRA person,he said he'll go get it in his car.He never returned...

Kinda scary.Also irritating knowing that the bad guys ruin it for everyone else.
These are reasons why you should respect whoever questions you and to comply with their commands.

Be safe
-Amtrak/Santa Fe Boy - Happy Halloween