railfans = terrorists?
#11
Taking pics of people at their workplace is always iffy, even if they know you and why you are taking them. Not the least of which is having somebody posting it somewhere and asking, "How many safety violations can you see?" or making suggestive suggestions. (which has happened on RR forums)

People in public places generally have no defendable expectations of privacy, but you may be invading their privacy, legally or not. You can expect negative reactions when somebody thinks privacy is being invaded.

If you were in a place you could legally be, then tell them to call a cop. If you were on the platform and you are supposed to have a ticket and didn't, then think about that. OTOH, a cop is just going to chase you or cite you. But they are going to know they can't take your camera or delete pictures.
#12
(06-28-2013, 11:20 PM)penguingeneral Wrote:  It takes time to learn your own balance between being nice with these people and being a pain in their tail. HG tends to lean pretty far to one side of that.


Yes, but he knows what he's doing. =)
#13
He is kinda "Wannabe Hero" type of guy which is pretty rare at the station. I was at the station taking picture of #14 this morning and had no problem.

Once every 50 times, a guy or security/LACSD at the station asking me "what are u doing?" but after I tell him what I'm doing, usually he won't say anything.


(06-28-2013, 09:10 PM)BNSF7508 Wrote:  
(06-28-2013, 08:20 PM)IrvineAmtrakUP Wrote:  I was at Los Angeles Union Station today and was waiting for the Southwest Chief to depart. Then this guy (he was an Amtrak employee) drives up and asks me what I was doing. I told him I was taking photos. He took my camera and had me delete most of the pictures I took, including the ones of the UP SD70M that was parked on Track 13. He told me that taking photos was illegal because of 9/11. While we were talking, the Chief began to depart, so I pressed record on my video camera. The guy said that any video of trains was illegal.

So what's the moral of this? - 1) stay away from Union Station, unless you want most of your pictures deleted, and 2) railfans are apparently seen as possible terrorists.

It's understandable why he thought I was a terrorist, but having me delete almost all my photos was going too far.

Did you get the employee's name and department by chance?
Snuffy - A Cat Owner
#14
i'm curious to see exactly what the law is on this subject. I'd really like to know. Does anyone have a link or something where I can read up on it? Any presidents been set?
#15
#16
(07-16-2013, 08:37 PM)bordsmnj Wrote:  i'm curious to see exactly what the law is on this subject. I'd really like to know. Does anyone have a link or something where I can read up on it? Any presidents been set?


Amtrak Corporate Guidelines on Photography and Video Recording

Section I. Policy

The taking of photographs and/or videos is permitted within public access areas on Amtrak property and as otherwise stated in Section III.

In emergency and/or special circumstances (for example, declared elevation of Homeland Security Advisory System to High or Severe - orange and red) and where actions are deemed suspicious or inconsistent with this policy by observing/reporting persons, photographers and videographers may be approached and questioned to determine if further investigation or action is necessary.

Photography and video recording within restricted areas are prohibited. Individuals found in a restricted area will be subject to investigation and possible arrest and seizure of photography and/or video recording equipment may occur pursuant to the arrest. This policy applies in all circumstances, including where Amtrak may be promoting a photography contest or event.

Section II. Definitions

Commercial and Special Photography. Photography that requires explicit authorization from Amtrak and includes engagements for commercial gain or profit such as, movie films, commercial television productions, and photography for commercial advertisements.

Photography. Photography shall mean the taking of moving and/or still images.

Public Area. An area open to general public access and occupancy (station areas and platforms for ticketed passengers only) that is not otherwise posted or restricted by posted signs or locking devices. Signage, building design and physical barriers, i.e. fencing, bollards, etc., may also distinguish a public area from a restricted area.

Restricted Area. A restricted area is any area not open to or occupied by the public, or is open to or occupied by the public on a limited basis. Signage, building design and physical barriers, i.e. fencing, bollards, etc., may also distinguish a restricted area from a public area.

Restricted areas include but are not limited to the following:

Platforms (ticketed passengers are exempt)
Crew and Employee Work Areas
Maintenance Facilities
Unoccupied Trains and Engines
Office Areas
Employee Elevators
Baggage/Delivery Areas
Commissaries
Right of Way and Track Areas
In service train cars


Section III. Exceptions

Commercial and Special Photography. Prior arrangements must be made with Amtrak's Real Estate Department at (215) 349-1238 for approval.
News Photography. Members of the news media are entitled to the same access for photography purposes as the general public. News media may request additional access by contacting the Amtrak Media Relations Office, 202-906-3860. Amtrak recommends that members of the news media present valid press credentials when they film (print and video photography) in the public areas at Amtrak's stations and strongly encourages the news media to contact Amtrak's Media Relations Office in advance to facilitate and ensure appropriate access, particularly at major Amtrak stations. As a courtesy, Media Relations Representatives will frequently issue a letter or accompany news media in the Northeast, Chicago and California regions. It is understood that during breaking news events advance contact with Amtrak's Media Relations Office may not be possible.
Ticketed Passengers on platforms may photograph or video record during the time they are preparing to board or immediately after alighting from a train. Equipment is limited to hand-held devices. Such photography, including equipment set-up will be done in a reasonable, safe and timely manner.
Ticketed passengers on board trains may take photos or video record on a train when it does not interfere with passengers or crew and in accordance with any directions given by Amtrak onboard train personnel.
Other photography or video recording not covered by this policy requires advance approval from the area Amtrak Station Manager.
Section IV. Law Enforcement

Amtrak Police and Security personnel may approach photographers and videographers upon a complaint from a member of the public or Amtrak personnel that the activity is suspicious in nature, or based upon their own observation that the activity is suspicious in nature or inconsistent with this policy.

Amtrak Police and Security Personnel will advise the individual that an inquiry is being conducted for security purposes. Amtrak Police and Security personnel will follow established departmental regulations in this area.
Nothing in this policy limits or expands the authority of Amtrak police officers to initiate and pursue investigations, perform a pat down or frisk based upon reasonable suspicion, and/or conduct searches based upon probable cause or any recognized exception to the probable cause requirement in accordance with all legal authority. But the taking of photographs and/or video may not, in and of itself, rise to the level of reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

http://www.amtrak.com/photography-video-recording-policy

* * * *

The best part about Amtrak's policy:

"But the taking of photographs and/or video may not, in and of itself, rise to the level of reasonable suspicion or probable cause."

Yesss
#17
(07-16-2013, 09:41 PM)Holloran Grade Wrote:  
(07-16-2013, 08:37 PM)bordsmnj Wrote:  i'm curious to see exactly what the law is on this subject. I'd really like to know. Does anyone have a link or something where I can read up on it? Any presidents been set?


Photography and video recording within restricted areas are prohibited. Individuals found in a restricted area will be subject to investigation and possible arrest and seizure of photography and/or video recording equipment may occur pursuant to the arrest. This policy applies in all circumstances, including where Amtrak may be promoting a photography contest or event.

Restricted Area. A restricted area is any area not open to or occupied by the public, or is open to or occupied by the public on a limited basis. Signage, building design and physical barriers, i.e. fencing, bollards, etc., may also distinguish a restricted area from a public area.

Restricted areas include but are not limited to the following:

Platforms (ticketed passengers are exempt)
Crew and Employee Work Areas
Maintenance Facilities
Unoccupied Trains and Engines
Office Areas
Employee Elevators
Baggage/Delivery Areas
Commissaries
Right of Way and Track Areas
In service train cars


So technically I was breaking the law in LA, and the guy had a right to go through my photos (if you consider going through the photos as part of an investigation). Frustrated-computer-22 Sign-saywhat-1010
#18
No, it's not a law and he had no right.


TCS - power trippin' fools irritate.
#19
How does he have no right? He was just following policy.

I am NOT defending him. I am just playing devil's advocate here.

BTW, "Breaking the law" was very poor word choice.
#20
(07-16-2013, 10:01 PM)IrvineAmtrakUP Wrote:  So technically I was breaking the law in LA, and the guy had a right to go through my photos (if you consider going through the photos as part of an investigation). Frustrated-computer-22 Sign-saywhat-1010


No, because there are shared platforms at LAUST, and there are no signs.

Further, you are NEVER required to delete photos - period.

Here is a bad picture of such a sign, taken at Union Station In D.C.

   

Here is a picture of the platform - notice all the signs telling people that they are not allowed outside unless they have a ticket, and their train is at the platform.

   

Signs are also on the doors leading out to the platforms.

Do you see any of that in LA?

The answer is - no.


And one last photo since you want to play devils advocate.

Amtrak cop, on the platform at LAUST.

[Image: 4384238118_d602899c11.jpg]
No Pictures Please by El Roco Photography, on Flickr


I had a ticket for the train to the right, and he was not too happy about me taking his picture, but there was nothing he could do and that was that.




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